Image Credits:-
Many thanks to Debz Hobbs-Wyatt for supplying book cover and author pics. Some images created in Book Brush using Pixabay photos. Some images are directly from Pixabay. Screenshots were also taken by me, Allison Symes.
Introduction – Part 2
It is a great pleasure to welcome Debz Hobbs-Wyatt back to Chandler’s Ford Today for Part 2 of an in-depth interview celebrating the launch of her new novel, If Crows Could Talk (Walela Books).
Part 1 from last week covered Debz’s writing journey and wonderful advice regarding agents and the writing life. She also discussed the small presses (both of us are connected to Bridge House Publishing). Link at the bottom of this section of the interview if you missed Part 1. Whatever stage of the writing life you find yourself at now, do check both parts of this interview out. Debz has shared lots of wonderful tips.
And now for Part 2 where Debz discusses editing, shares top marketing tips, and how she handles the ups and downs of the writing life plus much more. Firstly though, a reminder of the blurb for If Crows Could Talk and the book trailer for it. Debz’s website and other links are at the end of the interview.
BLURB
Meet George Tucker and April Jefferson
Born 50 years apart… Their destinies are tied, they must meet, yet they do not know of each other’s existence… a story that unites a young white teenager with an African-American man running from the dark times of Jim Crow. Can April help George unlock his darkest secret?
Book Trailer for If Crows Could Talk: https://youtu.be/ig_Wj1zW3Po?si=Dd0nOqKvpOMjxfgy
1. How many drafts were needed for If Crows Could Talk? Do you edit as you go or get the story down first? I’m a huge fan of the latter! How did you get into editing professionally and what do you love about this role? I’ve been and continue to be on both sides of the editing fence at the same time, which is interesting. How do you find this because it happens for you too? The one thing I’ve found here is discovering how true it is every writer needs a good editor.
This novel went through numerous edits. I don’t adhere to the belief you just get the first draft down even though you know it has issues, and fix them later. But it’s different for everyone so I am not saying there are any rights and wrongs here. However, I polish as I go so the first draft needs elevating not fixing! I do an overall plot assessment before I tackle smaller edits because there are times when whole sections might be lost. This is the same advice I share with my editing clients: big picture first before dotting and crossing!
I left science to become an editor because I needed to be immersed 100% in the writing world. For me being an editor and writing coach meant I had to know my stuff to teach and there is no doubt this made me a better writer. It’s been nearly fifteen years now and I am so grateful I created the perfect job for myself. I write in the mornings, do my paid editing work in the afternoons and evenings. I have never earned as much as I did in my science job but I am richer in every other way!
So many people lose out on success because they don’t get a good editor. While I copy edit and proof, for me, and perhaps because it taps most into my creative side, I love developmental editing. I do full manuscript appraisals privately and for Cornerstones Literary Consultancy and these are what I love most, getting right inside stories and helping make people’s work so much better. If you have a novel you intend to submit to agents, I strongly recommend a manuscript appraisal to give it its best chance.
2. What top three marketing tips would you share with readers? What would you say were the best ways readers can help authors, other than buying their books, of course?
Hey it’s not easy to sell books. Social media is a must. I have a student who I am paying as an assistant who has taught me how to use Tiktok and Instagram to best effect. While I use Facebook and X/Twitter they are less favoured these days. But share content other than your book or it’s all too much self-promotion… and make it humorous. I have a blog and I interview other writers, share their work. Don’t make it only about you. I like to share writing articles too.
Sharing book reviews goes without saying though I am guarded about writing reviews for clients as I have a lot and so I tend to avoid doing this because of my connection! I only tend to review books I absolutely love.
Allison: I do the same here. Don’t think it’s fair to review a book I really dislike. Tastes are subjective.
I am paying out a lot to try to promote this book and give it the best chance. Roller banners at events, bookmarks, cards, signs, paid for the launch, paid for tables at fairs, paid for some PR from a small company to try to get reviews, an assistant, adverts like FB ads and Amazon ads. I am not even thinking about where I have lost money or when I hit profit because my focus has to be getting people to read the book and if they love it, telling other people! It’s all I can do.
If the book sells well there are talks of an audiobook and with my agent behind me who knows… film/TV, foreign rights? But for now it’s all about the small steps…
3. I often ask this but it is a good question given different authors give different responses to it! What is your favourite aspect of storytelling? Mine is creating the characters. Do you have any favourite characters (either your own or from other authors or both) and what makes them stand out for you? How easy or otherwise do you find getting into a character’s head to be able to write their story up, especially where what they’re experiencing isn’t pleasant?
I love characters, they take over and lead me through the story. They are my favourite, and I think of all my characters I love Lydia from While No One Was Watching most although I have a real soft spot for George in the new novel. I can’t write any other way than getting right inside their head. For me that’s the easy part! No matter what they experience, and George has his demons for sure, I let him lead me to his story and held his hand when he told me the worst parts.
Abi Daré who wrote The Girl With The Louding Voice, an international best-selling author, came to my book launch and she also talked to my writing group and this is what she said:-
“Tell your story as if your reader has lost all their senses. Show them the world, create it but assume the reader is intelligent, very intelligent, so never patronise them. Show them what they need to see and feel and immerse them in it completely.”.
That is what I try to do through all the things that happen to the character, good or bad. If the reader cares they will stay on that journey with them, cry with them and laugh with them – right?
4. How did you become a Visiting Local Author for the Canvey Island Library? I should imagine they’ve been tremendously supportive to you. Most libraries are to their local writers. Can you share more about this and what do you recommend authors should do to develop good relationships with their local libraries?
I always fancied being a writer-in-residence at a local library, sitting surrounded by books and writing. I happened to tell one of the librarians at Canvey Library who I knew well and she said DO IT! Ooh let’s have our own writer! She sought permissions needed and next thing there I was every other week spending an afternoon as their local visiting writer!
I have people talk to me, have recruited people for my writing group Canvey Writers, and also I have run workshops. It’s not a paid thing, but it gets you noticed and I believe we need to ensure libraries are used! So I suggest local writers have a word with their library and maybe ask to do the same.
5. If Crows Could Talk starts with a prologue and ends with an epilogue. What do you feel the advantages to these are and why did you feel the need to use them? (Not every author does). Also, novels can convey so much in the actions and attitudes of their characters. What would you like readers to “take” from If Crows Could Talk?
Some writers don’t believe in prologues and epilogues, but that is not good advice. If used well and correctly they enhance the storytelling. I only use them if I want to convey something vital to plot that happens outside the main action. I don’t suggest they’re too long, a prologue should tease the reader into the story and an epilogue is a statement or reaffirmation of the final message. I used them with this novel because they bookend the story.
It starts with a grown-up April in the future with a decision to make as she takes a train journey. We then go back to tell the story of the novel. At the end we return to April and who she’s meeting. This is where we see why this decision is as loaded as it is, having read her story. It serves as a form of homecoming chapter but much later in time. The epilogue also has to be equally functional for plot which this is and there is even a final part of the story, a final plot twist at the very end. The use of them is dependent on what works for the story, some novels don’t need them but this one did.
If Crows Could Talk has an important message but it’s not just about racial injustice. Or secrets. It’s about people. It doesn’t matter what the colour of our skin, our culture, our background, are. While these things shape us, and we embrace that diversity, at the end of the day we are just people. Strip it all back and we look out through a single set of eyes and we experience the same emotions. We are equal, yet we are different, and we should embrace our differences while connecting through our commonality.
I want people to connect to these diverse characters and walk through their lives for a while. Fiction allows us to be different people and that’s why I write diverse characters and don’t adhere to the misplaced notion we should only write what we know. That’s not to say that when writing a book like this, you don’t need to be sensitive to different cultures, that’s the fun part. Research, and plenty of it.
6. How do you handle the inevitable ups and downs of the writing life? Can you share tips for other writers here? Are you involved with any writing groups and, if so, what would you say the benefits were? What should writers look for in a good writing group? If not in a group, how do you ensure you receive support from other writers? I find it is one of the strengths of the writing community as a whole it is supportive and I know I’ve had good cause to be (and continue to be) grateful for this.
Writing can be isolating and requires a lot of alone time, though when you love your characters, are you really truly alone? When lockdown changed the way I worked, and I found Zoom was my new go-to, I learned the true value of coming together with other writers. I run Canvey Writers and we went online in lockdown, but I also now add a Zoom session for all clients to discuss their editorial reports.
And, the biggest change was adding my online mentoring courses, novels and short stories and I am considering starting an online critique group for more advanced writers. Groups are invaluable, they stop the writer’s life being so lonely.
All I’d say if you are considering joining a group, is be aware of their experience as this will help to assess the validity of feedback. I have heard people giving totally the wrong advice in groups that are unregulated so you do need to know someone who is steering it does know something! If you find a supportive group, the guidance and the connections you make can be a wonderful asset.
As sociable as I am, when it comes to my own work, I tend to just get on with it. I am my own pickiest critic. As a developmental editor I do know what works, but you can miss things in your own work although so far after writing ten novels I think I can trust my judgement.
My agent so far has never had any issues with the shaping of the story or the plot. So I don’t use beta readers or discuss my work with anyone but my agent but never in detail when working on it. I also have one close writing friend who I do sometimes bounce ideas off more as a sanity check. That’s not to say beta readers or critique groups are not necessary, but I prefer it this way now I think I know what I’m doing!
7. When reading, what do you look for in a story? What makes a great story for you? Where do you stand on the character -v- plot debate? I’m firmly on the side of character given, for me, they drive the plot and a weak plot can be salvaged at least to an extent by strong characters. I’ve never known a weak character portrayal ever salvage a plot though!
I am with you, character all the way hence I am a literary writer which by definition means character-driven stories. I believe, like you, readers will stay with great characters not doing a lot plot wise for much longer than they will weak characters doing exciting things. That said, I think some literary novels can sacrifice too much plot so I still think you need both: great characters doing exciting things.
I was good friends with Watership Down author, Richard Adams, for many years and I talked to him about this. What he said was, “My dear, you can write wonderful characters but if you don’t give them bloody good things to do, your reader will eventually lose interest.” He might have had a point.
I asked my agent about this and where she thinks my writing is. She told me it is literary and she loves my characters but the plots are great too and that she claims that puts me in ‘Book club fiction’ and that is one label I will take graciously. The best of both. It should come as no surprise this is my favourite type of book too and I read very widely!
8. Last but not least, do share news of your writing plans.
So right now, I have amassed about ten novels I like to think are waiting in the wings for the time to be right. Some are US mystery novels like this new one, some are more UK-based uplit and for those my agent suggested I use a different writing name, so these are my Ellis Brown novels although none have been picked up… yet. Last year’s novel Unravelling Norma Wallis is sort of both as one of the narrators is from the US but lives in the UK… that is currently on submission so we hope and pray a big press takes this one.
Whatever happens, whether I make it as an international best-selling author or not, I will always write for joy and passion, not the market and what I think will sell. I could write something commercial to get my name out there (though even that’s a gamble) but I would not be happy.
I have to write what I want to and hope that one day someone loves it enough it gets me the recognition… but if you write for the love and passion of it, you will never go wrong.
Conclusion
Many thanks, Debz, for a wonderful interview. Huge congratulations and good luck with If Crows Could Talk. I look forward to seeing you in person in December at the Bridge House Publishing event.
DEBZ HOBBS-WYATT – SOCIAL MEDIA AND OTHER LINKS
Debz Hobbs-Wyatt
WRITER/EDITOR/PUBLISHER
Changing the world, one word at a time…
Visiting Local Author Canvey Island Library
Represented by Camilla Shestopal, Shesto-Literary.com
Winner Bath Short Story Award 2013
Shortlisted in Commonwealth Short Story Prize 2013
Debut Novel While No One Was Watching published by Parthian Books
Related Posts:-
Author Interview: Debz Hobbs-Wyatt – If Crows Could Talk Part 1
Read interviews with Chandler’s Ford writer Allison Symes: Part 1 and Part 2.
Read blog posts by Allison Symes published on Chandler’s Ford Today.
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