About the author: Dave Key is the voluntary archivist and historian at Hursley Park. He is trying to locate as many ex-Supermariners, or their relatives, as possible in order to record their stories. Could you help?
In September 1940 the Vickers Armstrongs (Supermarine) Woolston & Itchen workshops were bombed, forcing the complete dispersal of Spitfire production around the south of England (principally Hampshire, Dorset and Wiltshire).
By December the Design & Production departments had relocated to Hursley Park and many small business premises, including some in Chandler’s Ford, were requisition to enable Spitfire production to continue.
To allow the relocated Supermariners to continue to work there was a pressing need for accommodation and by December 1941 prefabricated huts, the Hutments, were under construction, some already having workers living in them by this time.
For the next sixteen years, until Vickers finally relinquished Hursley Park and moved the design team to Weybridge, Supermarine was an integral part of the local area.
This photograph below by Vickers-Armstrongs Collection, Cambridge University Library, was taken in 1943 of the design and production team outside Hursley House (it excluded the drawing office and experimental hangar workers, so is not the whole ‘team’).
75th Anniversary of the Supermarine Dispersal
Later this year will mark the 75th Anniversary of the Supermarine Dispersal.
To help commemorate this event I am trying to collect as many memories and pictures of those who worked for Supermarine as possible. From reading some of the posts already made on the Chandler’s Ford Today website I know there are still those who were themselves, or whose relatives were, Supermariners. I would very much like to hear your stories.
If you are able and willing to help I would love to hear from you, either via the site or contact me via my research email.
There is a Facebook page.. we remember submariners which may be a good place to post a request.
Hi Ann,
Did you mean “We remember submariners” or “We remember Supermariners”?
I could only find a facebook page for Submariners, i.e those who go in served in submarines, not one for “Supermariners” i.e. those who worked for Vickers-Armstrongs (Supermarine).
Have I missed something? It would be great if there was a page!
Thanks
Dave
Hi! David My mother was a tracer at Hursley Park and worked for Joe Smith. She will be 90 tomorrow! she remembers much about working there and lived and was brought up in Hursley.
Best wishes Robert Walker
Hi Robert,
First a very happy birthday to your mother!
I would very much like to hear about her time working for Supermarine and growing up in Hursley. I will send an email about maybe arranging a time to have a chat to hear her stories.
Thanks again
Dave
I’m so glad to see this beautiful connection. Good luck to you all.
It would be good to hear from some supermariner designers and their descendants. The elliptical wing of the Spitfire was said to be difficult to manufacture. It was designed to have a minimal drag but ideally should have been more slender near the fuselage. There had to be room for the armaments and undercarriage so compromises had to be made. The designers had to achieve maximum lift and strength with minimum drag and weight and still have room for the ammunition boxes.
It’s me standing by a spitfire pretending that I am the pilot.
Hello
My father Kenneth Marsh worked at the Eastleigh/Southampton Airport during the war. I think he worked on building/repairing Spitfires and other aircraft. We lived on Belmont Road, Velmore Camp was just around the corner. We often had American military members at our house for tea or a meal. They usually brought some special goodies for me, Lifesavers or a chocolate bar. I remember many convoys of military vehicles on Leigh Road and Bournemouth Road, bomb shelter on the corner and our Anderson shelter. Can still hear the sound of bombers approaching, but luckily never hit.
Joanna Marsh Blacklock
Hi Joanna,
Thank you for sharing your recollections of you and your father’s wartime experiences. I really enjoyed reading them. Do you know when he started working at the airport or when he finished? I ask as there are a few pictures of the Supermarine team there post war, you never know he might be in one!
If you remember any more… I’d love to hear it all!
Although I started this talking about Hursley the project has grown (a lot!) and I’m now trying to build a more complete record of memories from Supermariners and from stories that put what they did in context. So things like the adjacent company of Cunliffe Owen at the airport and what it was like for the families of the workers, so your stories of the shelters and the Americans are brilliant.
Thanks again
Dave
Hello Dave,
I think my father worked at the airport from 1941-1945. Before the war he worked at Pirelli Cable as an electrician. He met my mother there, she was employed as a nurse. I was born in 1940 so was very young then, but have clear memories of the bomb shelter. My father was also an Air Raid warden, he alerted people to head for the shelter. We children would play card games, snap and happy families to pass the time. Adults would chat or sing songs, one neighbour had a harmonica to get the music going. The Vera Lynn type songs were popular.
Sadly when we emigrated to Canada a lot of our momentos were left behind. I have been back to Chandler’s Ford several times and am always amazed at the changes.
Cheers
Joanna
Hello Dave,
My father worked for Vickers during the war at Hursley Road Chandler’s Ford where Drapers tools are now operating from, although they were not so grand premises then. He also worked at their other site where Hendy’s used to be. We also had a lodger who came up from Cornwall, a Bert Frazier and he worked at Vickers as well. Before WW2 my Dad’s family were from Hursley, their address was just 83 Hursley, one of the estate cottages and I believe at one time they worked on or for the estate when Sir George Cooper owned Hursley Park.
Hi Roger,
Many thanks for the comment and the extra information on your father’s time at “Supers” in Chandler’s Ford. It all adds such a lot to the overall story. Do you know much about what your dad did there. The Hursley Road was a store as far as I can tell. The Hendy’s site was, after the initial confusion following the attack on Southampton when it housed “wheelers” making shaped body parts for the Spitfires, a pre-production site linked to the work at Hursley Park.
If you remember any more please let me know either here or send me an email
Thanks again
Dave
Hi Dave
My Dad had no trade as before WW1 he worked on steam agriculture tackle so he was probably a storeman or labourer at Vickers if it was a store . ” Bert Frazier ” may have had a trade he lodged with us for a few years and was well liked by all of us , I believe my middle name was the same as his ,I do remember Dad brought a kitten home from the works about the same time as I was born and died on my 21 st birthday
Hi Dave, My father Eric Witts was working at the supermarine works in Woolston when they were bombed, then went to Hursley Park when the company moved there. He became chauffeur to the Chief Designer Joe Smith until his death in 1956. After his death my mother and father drove Joe’s to her new home at Solihull after their house in Chandlers Ford was sold. He continued to work for Vickers Armstrong after they left Hursley and moved back to Woolston. My sister Julia Witts also started her career in the Drawing Office at Hursley Park about 1950 where she worked under the supervision of Miss Leach. Unfortunately both my father and sister are now deceased. I have photos of Prince Philip’s visit to Hursley Park in the early fifties when my father drove him from Eastleigh Airport and back again.
Hi Dave, My father Ron Neve worked in the Hursley Park drawing office in the early 1950s. He particularly remembers the Duke of Edinburghs visit because he borrowed my dad’s pen to sign the visitors book! He might be in one of the photos mentioned by Desmond Witts.
Hi Sue,
I have received your email and replied. Thank you for the comment. I will include some of Desmond’s pictures of the Duke at Hursley in the collection I’ll send.
Thanks again for getting in contact, it’s really appreciated.
All the best
Dave
Hello. My Great Uncle Louis Roy Payne was a Signwriter. He painted the circles on the Spitfire at Hursley Park. That is all I can tell you about his time there.
Hi
Thanks for the comment.
I’ll do some digging and see whether I can find Louis’ name in any of the notes I have. If he was painting the aircraft at Hursley then he would probably have been doing it on the prototype aircraft in the Experimental Hangar, which might well mean that some of the photographs of the prototype Spitfire’s are his very own handiwork!
I’d be very interested in any more detail on Louis if you do think of anything.
Thanks again
Dave
Dave, My grandfather William Alec Conley was part of the Mitchell drawing office team and then the successor team working on the Spitfire all through the war. It was my understanding that he worked on the designs of the Spitfire engine housing. All through the war he had to travel back and forth to the Midlands to liaise with Rolls Royce in relation to fitting the engines into the Spitfire. I believe he worked for Supermarine and successor companies from about 1926 until about 1960. We have pictures of the design team and also of my grandfather meeting the Duke of Edinburgh as mentioned in the previous post. My grandfather joined Supermarine from the Navy shipyard in Plymouth in 1926, having moved from the Rosyth shipyard. Supermarine recruited draughtsmen from the ship industry both because there weren’t many aircraft designers in the 1920s and also because the early aircraft were flying boats. My grandfather was part of the team that worked on the design of the aircraft that won the Scneider trophy. Each member of the team was given a small replica copy of the trophy. During the bombing of Woolston and during air raid alerts my grandfather and some other friends from the drawing office would rush up to an air raid shelter on Pear Tree Green as they were worried about being in the shelter by the factory. My grandfather was moved to Hursley Park and along with another member of the team, Mr Kettlewell (my godfather), lived in a cottage on Farley Mount (no longer there) for the remainder of the war. My mum was 17 on the day the war broke out and recalls working as a Land Girl nearby during one summer. She said that there were also men working on the land who were conscientious objectors. She described a fight that broke out one day between two factions of the conscientious objectors who had opposing philosophies as to why they were not fighting in the war! Another friend who worked at Supermarine or Hursley was a Mr Hetzel (my brother’s godfather). I am trying to to track down more information about this period and my family connection.
Hi Douglas,
Many thanks for the fantastic account of your family’s links to Supermarine and Hursley!
I had a quick look at some of the documents I have and Mr Conley is listed as a subscriber on a 1927 Supermarine Ragazine (their inhouse, and definitely unofficial, magazine) so your date of 1926 sounds spot on! He is also listed in “The Spitfire Book” as one of the “Section Leaders & Senior Draughtsmen” as responsible for the Engine Installation (Mr Kettlewell is there too for detail design) … have you seen either of these/would you like a copy?
I’d love to see any of the pictures or anything else you might be able to add to their time at Supermarine (both Woolston and Hursley), for example do you know where their House was on Farley Mount?
If I can help add to what you already know about your family and Supermarine then please do let me know and I’ll do my best to help.
I have a website that I’m trying to add the stories and history of “The Supermariners” like your grandfather.
https://supermariners.wordpress.com/
There is a lot of work to do and it’s a bit clunky, Mr Conley is on it https://supermariners.wordpress.com/organisation/design-department/the-drawing-office/ ( and now I can add some detail!!) but as you’ll see lots to do but feel free to take a look and there is a contact there for me or my email should be on my gravatar profile.
Thanks again for the post, really appreciated!
Dave
Hi I think my dad started work at Hursley as an apprentice in 1943. Unfortunetly he passed away last May but I have found items from that time while clearing out the house.
Hi Jeremy,
I’d be very interested to hear anything you do know about your father’s time with Supermarine.
Also, if I can be of any help in helping to answer any questions you may have, please do ask.
If he joined in 1943 he may be in one of the photos taken of the team that year.
All the best
Dave
A short comment to thank all of those who have helped in y research into the stories behind the men and women who worked for Supermarine at Hursley Park (and beyond).
The research is on-going and I am still very interested to hear abour anyone or anything else relating to Supermarine at Hursley.
I’d also like to add a slight correction to my original post. I incorrectly labelled the picture of the Supermarine Team outside Hursley Park House as ‘credit the Cambridge University Library’. Why the mistake, well most of the pictures from the Vickers Archive do come from the collection at Cambridge, curiously this photograph is not one of them.
In 1943 Vickers took a series of photographs of their numerous ‘dispersal works’ including Hursley Park. These photographs, including pictures of the outside of Hursley Park House and inside some of the workshops and Drawing Office were included in a series of albums telling the story of the works.
However, this particular photograph was not included and copies were given to members as momentos, it is from this source that this particular photograph comes from.
To my knowledge, the picture is not in the Cambridge University Library ‘Vickers Archive’, it may be … but I have not to-date found it there.
My apologies for any confusion
Sorry,
Not familiar with your email system.
Worked under a Mr. Don Burns who was my Boss in Cathay Pacific Airways btwn 1988 -1998 .
Seem to remember him talking about a Company , although it may have been Handley Page.
He was Head of Aircraft Performance and, Flight Planning and Navigation Development btwn these years, although he retired around 1995 to the Philippines ;
May ring a few bells with anyone who remembers him.
A tall, very knowledgeable person in these fields who was always, very correct, when discussing technicalities.
May be of Help ? Brgds.
Malcolm Pickup. Ex of Cathay Pacific Airways.
Hello Dave. Hope you are still well and on line. I have artifacts to sift from 2 deceased close – not relatives – but my ‘southern mum and dad’ in effect. Both worked for years at Vickers and at Hursley. I have photos and ‘stuff’. MARGARET OLIVE BLAKE, ALAN RIMMINGTON BLAKE ( 35 years or more at Vickers ) both late of Curdridge. I visit the area fequuently – going to Hovercraft Museum this weekend – last visit I took then a complete set of SRN4 Drawings – I found in the Apple Loft !!
Hi Adrian,
I am most certainly alive and on-line and still researching the history of Hursley Park and also the men and women who worked for Supermarine before, during and after the War.
I would be extremely interested in whatever you can tell me about Margaret & Alan’s time with Supermarine and at Hursley. I’ll send you an email if that’s OK and we can discuss in more detail.
It’ll be fascinating to hear … the SRN4 is interesting enough. I wonder if there is a link through Supermarine and their work for Vickers on Hovercraft like the VA-3 which was tested down at Itchen before Vickers and Saunders-Roe combined their Hovercraft development there and on the Isle of Wight?
Thanks for getting in touch.
All the best
Dave
Looking forward to
Good morning. I have just read your mail making reference to the VA3. She was designed and built at South Marston, and as a young engineer I worked in the stress office on the design of the VA3 and produced the Type record for her to fly on the first commercial hovercraft ‘flights’ between Walasey and Ryhl. I remember there being great debate as to whether she was an aircraft or a ship.
Hi Ron,
I’d be very interested in hearing more of your recollections of working in the Stress Office up in South Marston if it’s OK? Did you start there or you one of those moved up from Hursley?
All the best
Dave
Hi! A rather late rambling reply. Hope you find it of some interest.
I started my working life as an engineer apprentice at South Marston in September 1957. This was just before the various divisions of Supermarine were amalgamated after the formation of BAC. The South Marston works was set up as an independent unit. Members from the workforce and apprentices from Hursley, Newbury, Trowbridge and Follands were brought to South Marston to a new company called Vickers (South Marston) Ltd. I did a four year apprenticeship. This consisted of two years in the ‘Pen’ as the apprentice training unit was called, and going round the various sections in the factory. During that time I went to Swindon Tech and once you had your ONC you were considered ‘educated’ enough to move into the offices. During this time an apprentice training school was built at South Marston. Each group of apprentices coming to the end of their time there were given a project to carry out. The group I was in built a gyrocopter. This was towed along the runway by one of the site fire engines. Its controls were reversed, similar to a weight shift flexwing microlight of today. The first flight was carried out by the local managing director, and unfortunately he had not appreciated this and nearly came to serious grief. After the drawing office – in the days of drawing boards and paper drawings – I ended up in the Tech Office. Initially working on the cg calculations for the Scimitar aircraft that were still being built for the Royal Navy, and then into the stress office where it included such things as fatigue life predictions of aircraft, and typically the wing stressing for the carriage of Bullpup and Sidewinder missiles on under wing pylons. We were a small unit consisting of four senior stress men and initially three apprentices that finally became junior stressmen. During this period we still continued to do day release to Swindon Tech to obtain our HNC and ONC and HNC endorsements.
The most interesting part of my time in the Stress Office was being involved in the hovercraft. There were two basic craft that were actually built, the Vickers VA1 and the VA3. The VA1 was of wooden construction and was piston engine powered, with engines that were ‘pinched’ from a de Havilland Rapaide that had been used as an air taxi between the various Vickers establishments. It was quite a failure as far as I can remember as it was built with a recirculating cushion and only succeed in sucking up any puddles beneath it. The VA3 was a totally different proposition. It was built on aircraft principles of aluminium and rivets, although we did look at using geodetic construction for the hull. There was great debate at the time as to whether it was a boat or an aeroplane; I subsequently produced an aircraft type record as an aircraft for it to ‘fly’ between Wallasey and Rhyl. It was powered by Turbomeca helicopter engines, which at the time were suffering from turbine disc failures, so the engine nacelles were wrapped with stainless steel as a precaution. Anyone who knew the history and travelled in it didn’t sit between the engines!! The first flight was by Colquhoun, the test pilot at South Marston, without the passenger pod. The runway had such a camber from end to end that when he shut the propultion engines down it continued to drift down the runway to the boundary fence. It was spun around its axis and power applied to stop the drift. It was then taken for various tests on the Solent before being taken north to become, I believe, the first commercial hovercraft. It returned to the works with the bow in a terrible state. On its last flight it couldn’t return to the overnight slipway and sat on the water. The weather got up and the craft was driven against the jetty wall. The test pilot who was flying it and the aerodynamicists who were on the crew took the craft out to try and save it from any further damage. I believe it had some form of splitter plate to enhance the stability of the cushion, and when it started to show signs of weakness he got them off the craft and rode out the weather on his own.
A very special item at South Marston was a Supermarine Spitfire 5b. AB910 is now part of the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight. I used to make every effort to go to FS2 to be able to see and touch this iconic aeroplane. Whenever it was flown the whole office would migrate to the windows along its edge that looked out towards the pre-flight run-up area.
Various other things went on on the site. A Vickers Valiant bomber underwent fatigue testing until one day with an almighty bang the main wing spar failed. A Landover was fitted with some sort of hovercraft cushion, irradiation was carried out for Johnson and Johnson and various pieces of nuclear equipment handling and protection for what was then called Calder Hall.
Kind regards
Hello Dave.
We seem to have lost contact. I hope you have found the details of the organisation and staffing
of personnel in the Hursley Park Experimental Hangar 1951 to 1957 sent to you in march this year helpful in your role as Supermarine Historian. It would have been more helpful if I had managed to do it all on the Computer,but I find it easier to just put it down on paper in the form
sent to you. Until I got down to writing it all out the details just kept coming from my memory.also
events that took place during the building of the ill fated Supermarine 525 and my own career
changes during this time had a positive effect on my whole future as a Production Engineer.
Happy days. Carry on with your good work.Supermarine History is so important.
Best Wishes John
Hi John,
Great to hear from you and my apologies for not replying sooner!
The information you sent arrived and was certainly extremely interesting and useful. The 525 was a very interesting aircraft and if anything else springs to mind I’ll happily listen (however you want to tell the story … computer, letter or back of the proverbial fag packet!)
The focus recently has been a little less on Hursley and a little more on Woolston as I helped organise a commemoration of those killed in the raids on the Woolston and Itchen Works. An ‘interersting’ experience trying to organise a memorial during a pandemic. But with lots of help we traced the vast majority of those killed, found where they were buried (a challenge in itself as many are unmarked or hard to find or identify) and laid remembrance cards and flowers. If you’re interested there is more on the ‘Remembering the Fallen’ project on The Supermariners website https://supermariners.wordpress.com/remembering-the-fallen/
A great part of the project has been that it has brought together some of the relatives of those killed and helped them discover more of their family history and pass on the story of the sacrifices made to future generations,
It’s also been pretty interesting tracing more of the team, and as ever notes and recollections like yours have proved invaluable in finding those links … indeed I’m just off to try and find more about Wilf Elliott and Don Thurgood amongst others!
The sad thing at the moment is with the current restrictions it’s all being done from home as the site at Hursley Park remains, essentially, closed.
All the best
Dave
Dave,
Apprentice at Vickers Armstrong’s Engineering from 1955 through 1960.
Woolston, Eastleigh, Hursley and Swindon. It was a very rewarding experience and when entering the engineering division in Swindon was assigned many interesting projects. These projects where diverse and included nuclear power monitoring of reactor controls. Left and ventured to sea with at that time Cunard on the QE1 as an electrician now I believe are qualified as Engineers. Married settled in the USA. Have had a wonderful career path which encompassed y2k evaluations of 69 critical buildings throughout the world for Accenture (Then Arthur Anderson Engineering) out of Chicago. Could go on and on.
It was just a fantastic time of life on this planet to have had the opportunity to have started at Vickers. All inclusive are my memoirs along with four novels I wrote on the web. I will pay the site forward ten years when I pass on so that my great grand children can at least investigate who I was and whence I came.
Hi Brian,
Thanks for the comments.
It was definitely a really interesting period, but one that is so often forgotten, and the influence of ex Vickers employees on both sides of the pond is worthy of a book in it’s own right!
I would love to talk more and read those memoirs and well done for making sure your grand children get to read them! I spend a lot of time trying to help grandchildren discover the role their grandparents played when all they have is a passing reference to “worked for Supermarine” etc.
If you are interested please do get in touch. You should be able to contact via this page, if not then there is a contact page on my website:
https://supermariners.wordpress.com/about/contact/
Still A LOT of stuff to be added and would be great to be able to make sure your recollections are not lost too.
All the best
Dave
Hi Ron,
Thanks for the fantastic insight into your time at South Marston and definitely don’t worry about “rambling”, loved it all.
If you remember any more … always happy to listen.
All the best
Dave
Hello, my grandpa George Bailey, worked for Supermarine in Southampton I think, but he used to go to Chandlers Ford because me mum was evacuated there. She was taken in by Lady Mary and her daughter Alex. George Bailey worked on the Spitfire and knew Mr Mitchell. I wish I had asked more when I had the chance.
Hi Jane,
I’d love to know more about George and your mum and what happened to them if it’s OK? (You may be surprised how much you know … do you know where exactly your mother was evacuated to?)
I know there was a George Bailey living in Peartree Green (just above the Supermarine Works) in 1939 who was an Aircraft labourer. His wife’s name was Theresa. Might that be your grandfather?
There is a bit more on the Supermarine workers (and a contact page) on my website https://supermariners.wordpress.com/
Hope to hear from you
Dave
The history (and photos) of Vickers Supermarine at Hursley Park is recorded in Denis Le P Webb’s book “Never a Dull Moment”…he was the managing director there in WW2 and afterwards.